How do African Products Support US Consumers? African Suppliers, US Buyers, and New Markets

Episode 7

Oge Onubogu: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Wilson Center Africa Programs podcast, Beyond a Single Story, and our first season on the African Growth and Opportunity Act. My name is Oge Onubogu, and I'm joined by my co-host, Witney Schneidman. In our last episode, we talked with two entrepreneurs building U. S. based companies that are sourcing products from Africa, utilizing AGOA's trade preferences.

This week, we are speaking with two international trade experts who are working with U. S. buyers to source products from the domestic market and are connecting U. S. companies to business opportunities across Africa. First, we will hear from Gavin van der Burgh, the Chief Commercial Officer of the U. S. Africa Trade Desk.

Gavin connects major U. S. retailers. I'm going to talk a little bit about the Virginia Economic Development Partnership, which is a partnership between the U. S. Department of Commerce, supply chain leaders, and financial experts to African producers and suppliers bridging the gap between the African and U. S. markets.

[00:01:00] Then, we speak with Stephanie Agee, Chief Administrative Officer at the Virginia Economic Development Partnership. There, Stephanie leads programs designed to support companies in Virginia to grow their international sales. We speak about their recent trade mission to West Africa and the opportunities for U. S. companies in African markets. Here is our conversation with Gavin.

Gavin, thank you so much for joining us today.

Gavin: Thank you. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Oge Onubogu: So Gavin, we're going to dive right into this conversation. What is the U. S. Africa Trade Desk and why is this relevant for AGOA?

Gavin: So the U. S. Africa trade desk, um, is very unique in the, in the fact that it's a demand driven model.

So what we've identified is that there is a lack of a bridge between the wealth of what Africa can actually produce [00:02:00] and the need of U. S. Retailers. Um, and there's, there's this fundamental disconnect between the two. And what the U. S. Africa Trade Desk aims to do is to bridge that divide.

Um, and really what makes it so different is that it is purely demand driven. So we have, uh, a network of all of the big retailers here in the United States, many of which Are not aware of what Africa can actually produce, or they've had issues with supply chain continuity, supply chain stability, et cetera.

And what the trade desk does is it's built this entire ecosystem, which validates each step of the transaction process on a fully transparent basis. Um, and that allows retailers to make informed decisions. Uh, de risk their supply chain, but it also allows for African producers that [00:03:00] haven't been exposed to these large retail markets.

It allows them some form of direct access into the actual decision makers themselves through the trade desk. You know, we provide a validation of capability, capacity and cost. But we also very, very cognizant of, um, unseating any domestic U. S. Producers. So essentially what we really have a look at doing is we look at acting as a complimentary, um, system that brings supply chain continuity to the retail space in seasons where there is no domestic production.

So, for example, um, grapes, which was which is a large transaction of ours. When there is no Californian production or Mexican production, traditionally, the U. S. Market would look to Peru and Chile. Um, [00:04:00] Peru is just opened up its markets to China. So you're seeing quite high prices filtering into the U. S. Market. And historically, the, um, producers out of Africa haven't been able to compete. So what we've done is we've bridged that gap, uh, provided visibility, and that's now allowed for, um, African producers to expand their footprint, into the U. S. market.

Witney: So, I'm curious, do you, focus on, certain sectors? And I guess, a related question is, uh, AGOA allows some 6, 000 products to come in. duty free. What, what kind of volumes are you seeing of products coming across your desk?

Gavin: So you're starting to, you're starting to see significant volumes. Um, you know, historically the biggest beneficiary of AGOA has been South Africa. Um, and a lot of the other countries that are AGOA beneficiaries haven't really tapped the U. S. market to the full extent that AGOA actually allows.

We very [00:05:00] fast identified under tapped markets Um, within the retail sector itself. So you take, for example, uh, textiles and apparel. Textiles and apparel is a great, uh, beneficiary under AGOA. And that's not opened up opportunities for a whole host of other countries that benefit from ago to start moving into the retail sector.

So, um, you have a look at Mauritius as a classic example. Mauritius and Madagascar now that they back in ago have got fantastic textile producers. You know, you've got some of the big department stores that have been purchasing. But haven't really utilized the ago, uh, agreement to the full extent that it actually benefits those organizations.

And that's kind of where the expertise that we bring comes in, and it could be something as simple as changing the [00:06:00] content of the cotton on a pocket of a shirt. That now makes it AGOA eligible because it's got sufficient, domestic input, to actually linking into your big box retailers, the ability to supply just a general t shirt.

And I'm not just talking about your large department stores like your traditional Macy's and JC Penney's, et cetera. I'm talking about what you would find in a, in a Costco or a Walmart, or, um, one of your general retailers, um, that also has clothing and apparel.

Witney: Interesting. So, um, you know, Mauritius and, uh, Madagascar have sort of been stalwarts in supplying, apparel over the years.

Are you getting into like new markets, other markets that haven't been exporting as much like the, like the Zambias and, uh, the Malawis of the world?

Gavin: If you have a look at, uh, other textile and apparel kind of rising, um, uh, countries at the moment, you know, there, there is some really, really interesting products coming out of South [00:07:00] Africa.

Um, Lesotho is on the up and up, um, as well. Um, there, there seems to be a general consensus that, uh, the East African hub, um, is going to kind of become the center of. the apparel and textile industry in, uh, in terms of moving product into the United States. Although in saying that we're already starting to see some product filtering through from West Africa.

Um, and Prosper Africa has been pretty active in, uh, Nigeria and Ghana, et cetera, to have a look at enhancing those countries, capacity, uh, and capability of exporting to the USA as well.

Oge Onubogu: So you mentioned Prosper Africa, what relationship does Prosper Africa have to the U S Africa trade desk?

Gavin: We see ourselves as a public private partnership, uh, and. Essentially, what we do is a lot of ideal pipeline comes from, various embassies, et cetera. And as you rightly know, [00:08:00] Prosper Africa coordinates those, you know, 17 or 18 U. S. government agencies that are active in Africa. So what that does is it gives us quite a level of, uh, significant comfort that a lot of the potential suppliers out of Africa have been touched by a U. S. Government agency in some shape or form from a very high level, um, due diligence perspective, you know, to put it bluntly.

And that means that there is no child labor, no prison labor, no forced labor. You know, the core fundamentals of what Doing business in the United States would look like, um, where we then come in is a much deeper dive in terms of the due diligence, uh, and and dive into capability capacity cost, uh, seeing which programs prosper is currently supporting, uh, which other U. S. Government agencies are supporting a particular program. And then having a look at how we, um, can add value [00:09:00] to, what is, uh, what is needed. What Prosper is doing in getting that product actually to the U. S. consumer at a, um, a better price than what they would be paying for out of South America and China.

I wrote a personal post on my LinkedIn profile recently on just the importance of Africa strategically placing itself As the next big, big thing, um, for the United States in terms of creating supply, supply chain stability. Um, you know, the incoming administration, um, has already indicated significant tariffs on, uh, on competitors.

And this is really where AGOA is going to become extremely, extremely influential. Um, you know, if AGOA maintains itself, and continues. Products that comes from Africa, but [00:10:00] more specifically product that benefits, from AGOA is going to eliminate the perceived, um, inflationary pressures that are going to be created, by tariffs that are coming in from other countries.

We ran a recent assessment of what you find in a grocery store here in the United States. And just north of 88 percent of what you find in a traditional grocery store can come out of Africa. So if we can bridge that gap, um, and bring the products in, uh, under the AGOA agreement, it's definitely, definitely going to provide some form of Supply chain continuity, price stability and then obviously ease the inflationary pressures.

Oge Onubogu: So going back to the point on AGOA, you know, we are at this point where conversations about reauthorization.

Um, but what would you like to see, moving forward? Are there things you would like to see? done [00:11:00] differently? Are there things you would like to see done better? Things that are currently being done under AGOA that you'd like to see more of?

Gavin: The reality of it is AGOA works, right? We've seen it work and it, and it works well. What we've got to do is we've got to place more intensive focus on scaling the trade under the AGOA agreement because that then creates the success. And as soon as you can show to, the U. S. Consumer, um, the actual benefits of, uh, a trade agreement like agoa in price stability, you know, it doesn't hurt hurt their pockets, bringing all of that product back into the United States has a benefit to the U. S. Consumer. And, and really what I would like to see under agoa is. more, trade focused, private sector engagement, bringing the big retailers into Africa and showing [00:12:00] them what we've got from a, uh, capability perspective and the vast ability to be able to not just ship a product to a third country, um, and have it processed in China or Vietnam and eventually land up in the, the, in the United States, but actually having a look at how we can do a lot of that value addition in Africa.

And if we can't do it in Africa, bringing it across here to the United States and doing the final value addition here in the U. S. Instead of sending to third parties. In essence, really, what I'd like to see is the private sector far more engaged in the, uh, in the trade policy, um, and the renewal conditions of, of Ogoa.

Witney: And what's the best way to do that? Is it trade missions?

Gavin: Trade missions is one of them, but you've got to have specifically targeted trade missions.

So you don't want to do a, a, a general trade mission that [00:13:00] encompasses, uh, multiple countries and multiple, um, products. You know, you have a look at a typical retailer. A typical retailer will carry between 18 and 25, 000 items, they've got multiple buyers. And a lot of the times those buyers are moving departments as they get promoted.

Those are the decision makers. So really what you need to do is and where we've been very successful is identifying that unmet need. And time kills all deals. So what you've got to do is if there is an unmet need, um, in a retailer for a specific product, you've got to move pretty swiftly in collaboration with Prosper Africa to put a trade mission together to go and have a look at a specific need.

industry sector region that has the ability to fill that void quickly, rather than a [00:14:00] broad political trade mission. It's got to be a industry driven specific trade mission.

Oge Onubogu: So to your point about the private sector being more involved with the launch of the U. S. Africa Trade Desk, what reception have you gotten from the private sector in the U.

S.? Are there companies that have expressed an interest already? Are there any names you can mention? What sort of response have you gotten so far?

Gavin: I think what fundamentally makes us difference is we don't, we don't take any inventory position. Um, and it's demand driven. So, yeah. Really, what has happened is, you know, we've engaged with every single one of the major retailers. I don't think there is one major retailer that we are not actively engaged with.

Um, and that includes your big multinationals like, um, the likes of Walmart, uh, the Ahold Delhaize group and then some smaller of the regional retailers like the public's, uh, of the world down here in, uh, in Florida [00:15:00] and really having a look at. You know, kick starting a particular product, and then you seem to have this natural progression amongst the retailers to say, Hey, we're bringing in table grapes.

Um, but we also have a problem in sourcing certain stone fruit over a particular time of year. What have you guys got out of Africa? And that thing very quickly morphed out of just dealing in sub Saharan Africa into. In dealing in, in products coming out of North Africa and a lot of those countries don't, uh, don't benefit from AGOA.

Um, but there is opportunities that are coming in from, you know, Egypt and Morocco, et cetera, et cetera, as well. Um, but our, our intensive focus is really under the, um, the countries that benefit from AGOA currently.

Witney: So, uh, so a lot of your work then has been outreach to these. companies, large companies, midsize companies to sort of tell them about AGOA to tell them about Africa.

Gavin: [00:16:00] Yeah. You know, Witney, the big thing is that a lot of the retailers and you know, the likes of a Walmart and a Costco, et cetera, the big guys, they all know what Africa does. Um, but a lot of the other retailers are very skeptical of Africa's ability to. To supply on a continuous basis.

So we're dealing with a large budget retailer. Um, you know, I'm pretty sure they won't mind me mentioning the name dollar general. They cover, you know, close on 82 percent of the U. S. Market space. They've got just over 20, 000 stores. And we're helping them identify, derisking their supply chain.

So when we have a look at how much they actually bring in from Africa, it's less than 1 percent of their revenue. And they are 12, 13 billion company. Um, and this, this is where identifying that need becomes so critically important. So they identified a void of a particular type of dried bean.

A USDA [00:17:00] program was engaged in producing this type of bean that we needed coincidentally in Madagascar. Um, the great benefit that the Trade Desk now has is because this is demand driven, it makes USDA's future investment decisions. Pretty easy because we can now say to them your investment that you've done in this particular producer in, in the Southern part of Madagascar has the ability to give us a hundred containers a year.

We have a demand for a thousand containers a year. So if you invest, um, or provide them with a grant, that product isn't going to land up going to China or to the Middle East, et cetera. That product is actually going to come to a retailer here in the United States at a competitive price. which then keeps the prices low and benefits the U. S. consumer and ultimately the taxpayer.

Witney: That's fascinating. Yeah. so then you're on the edge of your seat like many others about AGOA's renewal and that becomes very [00:18:00] important to you and a number of your clients.

Gavin: Yeah, very, very much so. You know, um, you, you've got this fear that, you know, we are a year away from AGOA's renewal.

We've had numerous conferences. Uh, everybody is like, uh, you know, we've got to get this done.

Oge Onubogu: One last question from me, Gavin. We've talked a lot about the impact on consumers here in the United States. I'm curious about how the work you're doing is impacting U. S. businesses. We've touched on this in previous episodes of the podcast, but where do you see the value addition on products coming from Africa?

Gavin: So let's take a classic example of cashew nuts, right? So Africa currently produces, I think it's about 68 percent of the world's cashew nuts. The U. S. is the largest consumer of cashew nuts worldwide. Only 8 percent of what Africa produces comes directly to the United States.

The rest of those [00:19:00] cashew nuts are sent to India, Thailand, Vietnam, China, et cetera and produced, roasted, value added, packaged in those countries, and then it filters across to the United States. So if you go into any retailer here, and you have a look at a packet of cashew nuts, and you look at the country of origin, it says, Cote d'Ivoire and or Tanzania and or Kenya and or China and or Vietnam and or Benin, etc, etc Um, there is no real traceability behind that now Just imagine where we can start taking these cashew nuts because unfortunately There isn't the ability to process cashew nuts In Africa, beyond just taking it off the cashew nut apple and packing it in bulk, right?

So it's been graded, there has been job opportunities, et cetera, created in Africa. A lot of those small scale farmers have the ability to supply an aggregator. They will grade it, pack it in [00:20:00] bulk. What we are doing now is we are now bringing those bulk cashew nuts across to facilities here in the United States that are FDA approved, USDA approved and doing the final addition and value adding here in the United States, specifically for what a customer or a retailer actually wants. Now, what that does is it creates job opportunities here in the United States, because a lot of the nut producers, um, in Alabama, for example, that are producing pecans most of the time, when their season is finished.

Uh, a lot of the seasonal workers are laid off and then they have to, you know, reemploy them again Uh when the peak and season starts again in May June next year Now you've got the ability for those factories to have continuous work. So those Staff members are employed on a permanent basis here in the united states, but it also has ancillary benefits as well.

[00:21:00] Um, just take, for example, bringing cashew nuts from Cote d'Ivoire into the east coast port of the United States, processing it in Alabama and then distributing it to retail. Just have a look at what the carbon footprint reduction actually is. Instead of sending those cashew nuts from Ivory Coast, round the horn of Africa to India, offloading it in India, sending it to a processor there, packing it, processing it, putting it back onto a container, then shipping it across to a value adder in Vietnam, who's going to pack it up in its final packaging, um, moving it from Vietnam across to the west coast of, um, of the United States, that carbon footprint that we reduce across is substantial by bringing it directly to the United States.

I mean, you know, it's quite easy to actually quantify it and it could be north of [00:22:00] 7 to 800 per container, which is a significant amount of carbon credits that you can pass on to. Retailers here in the United States.

Oge Onubogu: That's wonderful. So Witney, the next time you eat your cashews, remember where they come from and then also know you're doing something good for the environment.

Witney: I'm going to get some cashew nuts this afternoon!

Oge Onubogu: Really enjoyed that conversation with Gavin and speaking about the positive impact African products can have on U. S. consumers, as well as the opportunities for African products to create U. S. based jobs.

Next, we will speak with Stephanie Agee, Senior Vice President of International Trade and Chief Administrative Officer at the Virginia Economic Development Partnership.

As we mentioned, Stephanie recently embarked on a trade mission to Senegal and Côte d'Ivoire, where she met with senior trade officials and private sector leaders [00:23:00] advancing business relations between the U. S. and Africa.

Stephanie, as we jump into this conversation, tell us a little bit about the Virginia Economic Development Partnership. Usually when we frame conversations around U. S. Africa relations, we don't always talk about the subnational level, how the states are engaging with countries on the continent. So tell us a little bit about the Virginia Economic Development Partnership and what it is.

Stephanie Agee: So the Virginia Economic Development Partnership is, as the name suggests, the lead economic development agency for the Commonwealth of Virginia. And one of the lines of effort that we have is an international trade program that is designed to help existing Virginia businesses to increase their international sales.

This is for companies that are experienced in international sales and want support to do international business development more efficiently, faster, less expensive than if they were on, if they were to do it on their own. And it's also for companies that are [00:24:00] new to export that really want some guidance and assistance as they embark for the first time on doing business internationally.

So we have programs and resources that extend around the globe, um, and including, including in Africa. So why West Africa?

Oge Onubogu: How did you start thinking about this trade mission to West Africa?

Stephanie Agee: Yeah, well, you know, to answer that, I want to start with a little bit broader looking at the continent. Why Africa?

So we've been doing work. We've been taking trade missions of Virginia companies to South Africa and to Morocco over And, Probably a decade to 15 years. Those have been markets that have been on the radar for us and for our client base for quite a while. I'd say starting at about 2021 2022, I started to have conversations with a really wide variety of people asking the question, you know, why aren't more U. S. companies doing business in Africa? And And if we want to change that, what do we need to do? And [00:25:00] this was really seriously coming from all different angles. I have talking with senators offices. I was talking with consultants who had been hired by U. S. government entities to ponder this question and to try to tackle the issue of how do we get more companies interested in doing this as an effort.

So what we came to the conclusion was. If we really want companies to explore what we knew were very real business opportunities in Africa, we need to give them more support, more information, access to a network that can help them mitigate the risks. Cause what we were realizing is that clearly it's a risk issue.

That's why so many companies work. You know, wanting to do business internationally, but really just saying, you know what, I'm, I'm going to focus on something that feels easier than Africa. I'm going to focus on something that feels less risky because I don't know how to mitigate those risks and get into this business environment comfortably.

So we said they need more support to, to understand what risks are truly real, what risks are just perceived and what are the mechanisms for getting over the really real [00:26:00] risks. Um, and so the support needed to come, not just from the state of Virginia, but from. National actors from federal level agencies and from from agencies on the continent, from organizations in Africa who were interested in facilitating business for U. S. Companies coming, coming onto the continent. So we advanced those conversations with national level organizations, including the commercial service with the Department of Commerce. Um, with Prosper Africa, and they were all very interested in partnering with us on this effort. And so we looked at, at the regions and said, well, where would we start?

And for various reasons, West Africa popped up pretty quickly. We had the support from the, from the embassies in country, from various organizations in each of these countries. There was an interest. There was a sense that if we're going to help people with this very challenging prospect, Um, diving into the two markets in Africa, why not start with a place that's particularly challenging in order to sort of rally this, this additional support around the companies that were interested in working [00:27:00] with us on this.

Witney: So what sectors resonated most with your companies?

Stephanie Agee: Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, you know, so Virginia has a very dynamic and diverse business sector, and that ended up being reflective of the companies that, that decided to travel with us, you know, Virginia has a, a strength in IT technology, cybersecurity.

Uh, that, that did, um, come through on our trade mission. We had companies with cybersecurity services and solutions, other sort of advanced technologies, uh, in the IT space. Um, also logistics. Logistics is a, is a place that Virginia excels. And we had some companies in, uh, in that space, um, companies in very niche areas to, uh, in geospatial data collection and mapping.

Um, port automation technologies again with a state like Virginia, with a robust and successful port. We have companies in that that do, um, support port infrastructure and also port technologies. And those were represented on the trade mission, um, and [00:28:00] medical equipment and supplies. So it really ran the gamut, I would say, of all the sectors where Virginia has a strength.

Oge Onubogu: So with, with the missions that you conducted to West Africa and those that you've conducted to other parts of the, of the continent, have you, um, in any way engaged with AGOA or encountered any conversations on, on AGOA?

Stephanie Agee: Yeah, I mean, certainly the conversation is sort of always out there. It's always part of, part of the larger conversation.

Um, while in Senegal, I was part of a, a round table that was facilitated by Prosper Africa. They had a conversation with AGOA. Senegalese businesses, small businesses that had been working on, you know, to access AGOA opportunities and talk through really some of the very real challenges that those businesses faced with qualifying, uh, which was illuminating for me, um, that they were having some challenges, but still committed and still very interested in the opportunity to get, to access the U S market.

Um, I know how [00:29:00] important that part is. I know that it was important for us to show up, not as a delegation that just wanted to sell. We need to show up as a delegation that was committed to two way trade. And while the companies that I was there with, the companies that we recruited from Virginia to go, surely their primary purpose was to ultimately do business here, to, to make sales to these countries.

But they even understood the importance of showing up as U. S. businesses that are, that are interested in a dialogue around the entire trade ecosystem, not just one way, but really two way. Um, and Prosper Africa certainly brought not that part of the conversation to light when, uh, because they came very much with an investment focused discussion, showing up to those meetings in my perspective, you know, knowing that, that, that this needs to be a discussion of how are we going to just facilitate better relationships overall with us making sales there, African businesses being able to make sales, not just to Virginia, but to the U. S. Um, that was always just a very important part of the entire, [00:30:00] the entire focus of the trip.

Witney: And do you have plans for another trip to West Africa?

Stephanie Agee: At this point, we're calling it an exploratory mission as opposed to one of our traditional trade missions where we feel a bit more confident in suggesting to participants that you're going to be, you will likely have new business results in this within six to 12 months after the mission.

With an exploratory mission, we're, we're putting it up front that this is an opportunity to do just that, to explore. So, I would love to do another one to West Africa, but I also feel an obligation to, to reach other parts of the continent. So our plan for the next one is actually to do Kenya and Tanzania in 2026.

Oge Onubogu: I'm a really big supporter of subnational engagement. I really think that states should be doing more to, um, partner with African countries. And I think just from hearing everything that you've laid out, there are a lot of opportunities there. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the opportunities and challenges [00:31:00] that You know, as a state run organization like yours, what are challenges that you have faced in engaging, especially in, in this area and how have you been able to overcome them?

Stephanie Agee: Sure. Well, I think the opportunity is this incredibly dynamic region and the regions within the continent and the countries within those regions that are eager for U. S. engagement, are eager for U. S. technologies, products, solutions. To the very real challenges that they are facing as countries and as, as business communities.

So that opportunity is what led us down this path. It's because there's this great opportunity and we just needed to, to help companies kind of overcome these risks. But those risks are not always easy to overcome. The financing piece is a big challenge. Um, so point is the opportunity is Africa, but the challenge is all of the things that come with doing business in that part of the world.

So, I think Virginia, we have as good an opportunity as any other state to be successful, to help our companies be [00:32:00] successful. So we try to break down that barrier a bit just by, by leveling the playing field a bit, saying, yeah, sure, West Africa has its challenges, but again, so do so many other places that we're already helping you as Virginia businesses get into.

Um, but, but I think the challenges around companies feeling very secure about getting paid. Um, and then when talking about finance options and having the, the financial institutions be willing to back a deal, you know, to back a project, to back the purchase from a, a buyer in West Africa queue has been a challenge for many of our companies.

So having the banks at the table with us was also very important and we brought them for us, for Africa, that was part of their very strong value add to this trade mission, their relationships with banking partners on the continent was super helpful. And many of the representatives at those banks, including Citibank, Bayless, um, Echobank, they came with us, they were there, they were on, on, you know, as integrated into the mission to be able to have [00:33:00] conversations about the realities of financing, um, projects with our companies while they were also on the ground and that was super, uh, helpful.

The additive of the national level, the federal level organizations partnering with us on this mission was also incredibly important and huge. differentiator for this mission. We often. Um, you know, for better or worse, we, we, we do this on our own in a lot of parts of the world. In this part of the world, we knew we needed more support.

We knew that the federal agencies that are on the ground working in this environment every day could provide so much value and introductions and legitimacy for our delegation. And they did all of that and more. We're in many ways much more nimble, uh, than our federal partners. Having those federal partners at the table and, and being closely involved in our activities and in setting up everything that we did was, was very important.

Oge Onubogu: You spoke about with some of the companies that went on the trade mission with you all, the background was in digital technology and IT [00:34:00] focused. And very often when we look at AGOA, it's usually agriculture. I would love to hear your thoughts on this because, you know, there are conversations about, yes, reauthorization of AGOA, but areas to modernize because different industries have emerged beyond the agricultural sector.

I know you've touched on this a little bit, but if you could elaborate more on how these companies were received on the continent, what opportunities you saw there because this this is one that is coming up continuously in conversations and where there's a lot of opportunity.

Stephanie Agee: Absolutely. Well, on that very interestingly, um, you know, we engaged closely with the projects that's developing a major data center in Abidjan.

And, um, the company called Sybastien is leading that effort. They are actually are, uh, they're, they're based in Virginia. They were not a part of the delegation. They're already very entrenched in the market in Cote d'Ivoire. But what they found, what they were very excited about [00:35:00] was how our Mission participants could contribute to this project, this major project they have to develop this data center.

We went to the site where it's being, where it's being built. We saw the plans for the development. Um, the Ministry of Digital, uh, Digital Transformation participated in that meeting with us, talked more broadly with our participants about what they're looking for, what they need. You know, they're very aware of, of, of how quickly this is, this needs to move and how quickly they intend for it to move.

How much support and how many, uh, you know, really transformative technologies they need to be contributing to the success of this data center and everything that will go around it. Um, and so they, in talking about how, how we were received there, there was this, this real excitement and certainly on the tech side, the technology side, but then even in some of these other areas, we have a, a company that participated with us who, um, has this, this capability to detect sources of, of groundwater.

And it basically lets, [00:36:00] lets governments and localities kind of sidestep so many different Frustrating parts of identifying sources of water and get straight to where the water actually is. And so there was a real excitement around that and saying, oh my gosh. You know, especially in certain parts of, of both Senegal in co de war, not necessarily around the capital cities, but in various parts of the country where they know they need more access to water.

Um, so that's just, you know, that's just outside of our, outside of this, this technology piece we're talking about. It is a technology but around something completely different. Um, so. I think they were also excited by the variety that we brought to the table. Thinking about AGOA, you know, I still love the idea that AGOA can facilitate the export to the U. S. of so many products, whether all the way from, you know, agriculture, as you said, that was kind of the initial focus of this um, to hair care products that one of the companies that was in this conversation in Senegal that was facilitated by Prosper Africa with some of the small businesses, they've been successful in exporting [00:37:00] some of their their hair care products to the U. S.

And I think that's that's great. Let's see all that this region has to offer and can and can export to the U. S. And many products of which we can then utilize as inputs to value add, which adds jobs for Americans, which adds productivity in America. Yeah. And I, I think that needs to be very top of mind for Congress people who are considering the reauthorization of AGOA for business people to really understand that this isn't, it's not a handout, it's, it's, it's an opportunity to bring in products at a lower price for our companies who need to buy these products and then add value to them here in the United States.

Witney: That's great. Your real world examples are just so compelling, particularly your points about how inputs coming from the continent can create jobs in Virginia and elsewhere. We sometimes don't pay enough attention to that.

Stephanie Agee: And just another small point is that The Port of Virginia relies on two way trade as well.

You know, we, we [00:38:00] promote exports, of course, but they have more imports coming in than they, than they do, uh, process exports. Um, and why not have those imports coming in from Africa and to Virginia, a place that is one of the closest locations to West Africa on the East Coast? You know, to see our port being able to take advantage of those shipments, that's just another benefit to Virginia.

Oge Onubogu: So, I want to close out with one question. When we started, you'd mentioned that, you know, a lot of private businesses, some of the challenges that they have coming into a new space or the African market is this challenge of real risk versus perceived risk. So following the different trade missions that you've had on the continent thus far, what has been their assessment following all of these missions?

Stephanie Agee: I think, um, it just clarifies the risks, perceived and real, and That the real risks become less scary because they're in person. I can't, you know, I haven't mentioned this, but the [00:39:00] importance of getting these businesses, these business people on the ground to, to experience the vibrancy of these cities, of these locations, getting them out of the cities in some cases, and seeing more of the countryside, um, talking, having peer to peer conversations with businesses, uh, in these markets.

It's so impactful, you know, and it and it does. It makes everything so much clearer for you, even for me as a as a person also on this mission and and having conversations with with government leaders with, uh, you know, the chambers of commerce, things like that. Um, it just you start to understand and that understanding helps you parse through what you can get past in terms of risk and what what's really, truly going to be barrier.

So I think most of these companies I think everybody came home more excited than when they showed up and more optimistic about what, what the future could hold, even if that future is five years from now. thank you so much. Very well [00:40:00] said.

Witney: Thank you, Stephanie. Absolutely.

Stephanie Agee: Well, thank you all so much.

It's been, it's been great to discuss with you guys.

Oge Onubogu: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Beyond a Single Story. As always, a special thanks to the production team that made this series possible.

This episode was produced by Aaron Stanley and Nathaniel Oakes. Technical assistance was provided by Sharona Harris and editing was done by Brian Prevost. The views expressed by guests of the podcast are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the Wilson Center Africa Program. The Africa Program is part of the Wilson Center, a congressionally chartered think tank that provides insights on global affairs to policy makers and the public through deep research, impartial analysis, and independent scholarship.